It looks like there are still people looking at this blog. I found a post I had not previously seen written by a teacher who worked at Yes. It's not really a horror story, more a short summary of the pros and cons.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/YES-Youngdo-English-School-Reviews-E338204.htm
The title of this post is "You Could Do Worse." That title wouldn't exactly grab me and make me want to apply to this place! However, it makese sense to teachers who have lived in Korea and heard various stories.
The teacher makes a point about the cameras in classes. I want to say something about that. When I was there I kind of half-knew about that. We couldn't see the camera in the class, but in the office there were TV screens for the classes/hallways/entrance and so on. In class I usually or maybe always forgot about them.
After I'd been given about two weeks notice to leave, one day between classes while I was talking to another teacher the infamous manager rudely called me over to his desk which embarassed me and seemed to confuse the other teacher. He gave me a little info on my visa being cancelled, probably the date it would be, but I can't remember much. That took just a minute. As I walked away another teacher looked at me curiously. I had asked the manager to keep the situation private until after I left. Well there was not only that but a day or so before going a different teacher told me he'd heard the manager saying to some people that I was leaving. Anyway, back to video.
After this happened, I started to teach my next class for a bit and was fed up enough to leave class and go back to the manager telling him that I wanted the owners' contact info so that I could tell them how I had been treated there. The manager smiled through this whole conversation. One thing he said was that he'd videotaped two classes and sent them to the owners. That was kind of a stab in the stomach. As I said I mostly didn't think about the cameras and I never thought that the manager could/would do this. The other main part of that talk I believe I put into another post, but I'll just rewrite it here. The manager went on to say that if I went to the owners he could , I quote: "Make things very bad for me." Again he was smiling through all this.
After leaving I wanted to send a letter to them. They seemed to me to be a reasonable, well-to-do Christian couple in their 40s who unfortunately had little contact with teachers. However, I couldn't see how to get a letter to them only. The hagwon address always included the manager's name. I didn't know the owners' full names. Had I written them in English or in Korean which the staff could see was obviously written by a foreigner...I believe that the manager would have tried to prevent such a letter from reaching the owners.
December 29, 2010
September 22, 2010
#1 Best Piece of Advice
Best piece of advice I can give to any teacher in Korea or coming to Korea is to avoid hagwons altogether. If you do work for a hagwon check out a position the same way you'd check out a used car.
If you have time to look for a job, take more time and look for public schools jobs. If you can't start one right away and must wait until the start of the new semester or school year, consider doing that.
I know of a couple who finished two years of teaching in public schools. They taught only about four classes a day, and over the two years they managed to work out about four months vacation. They likely requested to not have winter camp, and to use vacation time at the end so they could leave earlier.
School or university teachers sometimes experience "horror stories" at work but it's a lot less often than hagwon teachers. Black lists and blogs of bad times teaching in Korea may become a thing of the past.
It's a little sad to post this. Hagwons could be so much better than they are. If they were well managed and had certain standards to follow, it would mean a lot.
If you have time to look for a job, take more time and look for public schools jobs. If you can't start one right away and must wait until the start of the new semester or school year, consider doing that.
I know of a couple who finished two years of teaching in public schools. They taught only about four classes a day, and over the two years they managed to work out about four months vacation. They likely requested to not have winter camp, and to use vacation time at the end so they could leave earlier.
School or university teachers sometimes experience "horror stories" at work but it's a lot less often than hagwon teachers. Black lists and blogs of bad times teaching in Korea may become a thing of the past.
It's a little sad to post this. Hagwons could be so much better than they are. If they were well managed and had certain standards to follow, it would mean a lot.
July 14, 2010
A Word About Blacklists or Other Sites
One unfortunate thing is that a teacher could post on some site today warning people to never work for a certain hagwon. For example one could write "Never work for Fun Fun Kids Language Institute in Su Mi, Korea (names not real of course)" Readers could take note. More readers would visit the site and see this post over time. And then a year later the hagwon name could be changed. The owner could change. The manager could change. And they could advertise for teachers with their new name. Those who read the post wouldn't realize it's the same place.
Also hagwons can change locations. That could confuse people. Owners, directors, managers, teachers and others can move. A hagwon could keep one name but change management changing it overnight from a good place to work to a bad one or vice versa.
YY is one place that has kept their name for a long time. The ownership I'm pretty sure has been the same since the start. The management and teachers change. Likely they have few of their original employees, possibly none.
Most new teachers in Korea don't know this. Hope this post was helpful.
Also hagwons can change locations. That could confuse people. Owners, directors, managers, teachers and others can move. A hagwon could keep one name but change management changing it overnight from a good place to work to a bad one or vice versa.
YY is one place that has kept their name for a long time. The ownership I'm pretty sure has been the same since the start. The management and teachers change. Likely they have few of their original employees, possibly none.
Most new teachers in Korea don't know this. Hope this post was helpful.
Update
I'm still here. I love the new templates. I want the blog as comfortable to read and straightforward as possible. Again I welcome comments, I love that we can publish so easily, and I think all teachers in Korea should try blogging about their experiences. Blogging about your work situation can be helpful to others. I hope this blog has been helpful. I hope that hagwons or other workplaces for foreigners in Korea are aware of the ease of blogging one's experience and think carefully about how they treat foreigners.
March 14, 2010
Recent Posts at Famous Site
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=172591
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=145386&highlight=youngdo
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=145386&highlight=youngdo
A Recent Story
http://www.eslblacklist.com/research/republic-of-korea/hagwon--language-academies/138-yes-youngdo-gangdong-campus.html
Please click on this link for another story of an unhappy teacher's experience. I copied some of the info below.
Myeongil-dong, Gangdong-gu,
Seoul, Republic of Korea
http://www.yesenglish.com/english/
Review:
•Was poorly managed / organized
•Did Not treat their employees appropriately
Comments:
I was fired from YES Youngdo after only three months there. When I arrived there I received no training or orientation. It was basically, here are the books look at them and you will be teaching the next day. After adjusting to the way things were I thought I was doing ok. Then out of the blue after two months the branch manager pulled me aside and said that I was doing everything wrong and that if I did not fix it I would be fired in a month. Nothing was said to me before hand about my teaching. Some of their reasons for firing me were that I spent too much time on homework, even though we were told to spend more time. I was also getting blamed for some of my students leaving. When I asked my students why they were leaving a couple said because they were moving. The other reason I was being released was because the branch manager felt like they have been too easy on previous teachers and that some that were currently employed there should have been fired so she was trying to set the example with me. They did nothing to help me improve, so I was released. I feel that this campus is particularly bad because of the branch manager. She seems to not know what is going on at all, and have no idea how to run the school. She seems to only function irrationally and mean. So I would recommend that if anyone is thinking of working for YES Youngdo that they stay away from this campus.
Overall, I recommend working for this school: NO
Year of employment: December 2008 - Feburary 2009
Please click on this link for another story of an unhappy teacher's experience. I copied some of the info below.
Myeongil-dong, Gangdong-gu,
Seoul, Republic of Korea
http://www.yesenglish.com/english/
Review:
•Was poorly managed / organized
•Did Not treat their employees appropriately
Comments:
I was fired from YES Youngdo after only three months there. When I arrived there I received no training or orientation. It was basically, here are the books look at them and you will be teaching the next day. After adjusting to the way things were I thought I was doing ok. Then out of the blue after two months the branch manager pulled me aside and said that I was doing everything wrong and that if I did not fix it I would be fired in a month. Nothing was said to me before hand about my teaching. Some of their reasons for firing me were that I spent too much time on homework, even though we were told to spend more time. I was also getting blamed for some of my students leaving. When I asked my students why they were leaving a couple said because they were moving. The other reason I was being released was because the branch manager felt like they have been too easy on previous teachers and that some that were currently employed there should have been fired so she was trying to set the example with me. They did nothing to help me improve, so I was released. I feel that this campus is particularly bad because of the branch manager. She seems to not know what is going on at all, and have no idea how to run the school. She seems to only function irrationally and mean. So I would recommend that if anyone is thinking of working for YES Youngdo that they stay away from this campus.
Overall, I recommend working for this school: NO
Year of employment: December 2008 - Feburary 2009
November 18, 2009
Try a Search for Info
Try doing a search for info on any big hagwon in Korea and there should be a lot of stories. Putting in different keywords will give you different results. When I was doing a search on YY I typed the name Yes Youngdo into the Google search engine. I would recommend trying this. Then a list of different possibilities were shown such as "yes youngdo english school" or "yes youngdo korea." One was shown this time which was "yes youngdo eslcafe.com" When I searched with this I got these two results among others. Try the search for yourself. If you click on the first link you go to a very interesting site with many stories of teaching in Korea. If you click on the second unfortunately you aren't taken anywhere. The site has been redone. But you can see this is the start of a post describing a letter written to eslcafe by a former YY teacher. I posted the letter, response and explanation in one of my earliest posts. Please scroll down to see.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Korean Black List - They presently have a notice on Dave's ESL Cafe for a teacher (to replace me) and I wince when I think of ...... Although Yes Youngdo English school offers an attractive holiday of 6 weeks, ...
blacklist.tokyojon.com/
KoreanESL.com - ESL Jobs in Korea, ESL Teachers Board with English ... - In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147884" (Have you not seen) I work at YES Youngdo English School. Recently I've noticed a few posts that was put ...
koreanesl.com/esljobs_report.php?...4... -
___________________________________________________________________________________
Korean Black List - They presently have a notice on Dave's ESL Cafe for a teacher (to replace me) and I wince when I think of ...... Although Yes Youngdo English school offers an attractive holiday of 6 weeks, ...
blacklist.tokyojon.com/
KoreanESL.com - ESL Jobs in Korea, ESL Teachers Board with English ... - In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147884" (Have you not seen) I work at YES Youngdo English School. Recently I've noticed a few posts that was put ...
koreanesl.com/esljobs_report.php?...4... -
Found a Link to Some Old Posts from Yes Youngdo Teachers
I was excited to find this. I thought this whole site had been redone. When I posted links to some posts on this site (check my early posts on this blog to see) after a short time the links no longer worked. I explained this well in notes I added to the posts. Because there's a chance the same thing can happen here, I'm going to copy the page here. You can see there are good posts and bad. BTW the teachers talk of a six week holiday which YY was offering at one time.
http://koreanesl.com/esljobs_report.php?board=teacherforum&config=4&page=2&category=2&command=body&no=5618
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Job Reports
ㆍName Lost Seoul
ㆍPost Date 02-03-2003 (Sun)
ㆍviews: 158
YES Schools Part2
http://209.204.62.79/korea/index.cgi?read=133843
Re: YES Youngdo English School
Posted By: Meg
Date: Saturday, 6 July 2002, at 5:17 p.m.
In Response To: Re: YES Youngdo English School
I worked for YES Youngdo English School. My first advice is, don't trust the manager . He will tell you one thing one
week and another the next. He will make the school sound unblemished just to get you to sign. It is not until you have
worked there to understand that most of what the manager says is brown colored.
The school looks nice and you get your own class room. But the curriclum gets boring and you will have to write
approx. 90 reports after every month. Many days of the holidays in your contract will fall on the weekend, and when I
worked there we had to work on the occasional Korean holiday!
You will have to clock in 2 hours before your classes start and leaving the school for longer than half and hour for
lunch or whatever could get you fired. The manager once was going to fire someone for being the girlfriend of another
teacher who was fired because of having two many sick days. That teacher had doctors notes too!!!
So, at all costs, my advice is don't go there. There are many schools out there will managers who won't treat you like
cattle.
=======================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?read=132710135782
Excellent post
Posted By: again
Date: Thursday, 1 August 2002, at 1:41 p.m.
In Response To: Re: And another thing: Never e-mail anyone on ths (hamhock)
A school called YES in Ulsan went through 3 female foreign teachers in a two month period last year. Nobody knows why.
Just bad luck I guess. They only have 1 foreign teacher on staff.
you don't
======================================================
Avoid Yes Youngdo English Schools
Posted By: meg
Date: Tuesday, 15 October 2002, at 12:16 a.m.
Although Yes Youngdo English school offers an attractive holiday of 6 weeks, it is only a little comfort for all the
unpaid report writing hours and camera spying you are succumbed to.
The managers ------ and ------ treat the teachers like cattle and we are getting fired left right and centre, for
little reason. We are all walking on egg shells here.
I have heard that this school is black listed, which doesn't surprise me. A new rule is brought into action every
week. The latest is that compulsory blood tests are to be taken from every teacher once a month, and teachers have been
told to "stop posting messages on Daves". The school viciously protects its reputation and will fire you at the drop of
a hat, if they feel you are giving off a negative vibe.
Two months ago, there were many detailed stories of what Yes Youngdo is really about. I have noticed that they no
longer exist on this forum, which leads me to think that Yes Youngdo has had them removed to protect its image.
Avoid this school at all costs. They will be wonderful until you sign. Don't make the same mistake as me
====================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: Have you not seen
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2002, at 8:34 a.m.
postings about YES on this board? Stay far away. I had a personal experience with them,too. Stay away. They were going
to hire me a year ago,but then decided not to let me teach when I got there. I hurt my hand and I was taken to the
emergency room. When I refused to work the next day after being in the hospital all night,they decided not to fool with
me. I walked up the street and found a new school within a week and I stayed there one year.
=====================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: ginger
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 12:20 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147884" (Have you not seen)
I work at YES Youngdo English School. Recently I've noticed a few posts that was put up but I know it is from a
teacher that was recently fired from our school. He really didn't want to leave but I think the school and him just
didn't get along. There are things about the school I'm not happy with but overall I would say it is one of the best
schools in Korea. The six weeks paid vacation is true. The best thing to do is to ask whoever is recruiting you for
email addresses of the teachers at the school as well as a telephone interview with some of the teachers. This is what I
did when I decided on taking the job.
======================================================
believe it or not...
Posted By: canadienne
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 12:21 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
There's no need to be skeptical about the 6 weeks paid vacation. Myself and other teachers already took our one month
paid vacation. We will also have another one week vacation this Christmas and in the summer. If you're considering YES,
the contract is fair and it's been a pretty good experience so far. It has it's good and bad points but that's something
to expect from any hagwon.
======================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: missy
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2002, at 7:39 p.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
I have had a horrible exerience with the school [YES Youngdo English School]. I know of 8 other teachers who also have
had bad treatment there. Stay far away and don't be lured by the 6 weeks vacation.
Feel free to email me if you are interested in the gorey details.
======================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: shayne
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 9:30 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
i don't know abour the holiday situation, but i've heard from other sites it's a place [Yes Youngdo English School] to
stay away from. in my view, any place that's offering something for nothing is something to be wary of.
apparently the management can be very nazi-ish, but maybe you'll find that most places in korea.
======================================================
http://koreanesl.com/esljobs_report.php?board=teacherforum&config=4&page=2&category=2&command=body&no=5618
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Job Reports
ㆍName Lost Seoul
ㆍPost Date 02-03-2003 (Sun)
ㆍviews: 158
YES Schools Part2
http://209.204.62.79/korea/index.cgi?read=133843
Re: YES Youngdo English School
Posted By: Meg
Date: Saturday, 6 July 2002, at 5:17 p.m.
In Response To: Re: YES Youngdo English School
I worked for YES Youngdo English School. My first advice is, don't trust the manager . He will tell you one thing one
week and another the next. He will make the school sound unblemished just to get you to sign. It is not until you have
worked there to understand that most of what the manager says is brown colored.
The school looks nice and you get your own class room. But the curriclum gets boring and you will have to write
approx. 90 reports after every month. Many days of the holidays in your contract will fall on the weekend, and when I
worked there we had to work on the occasional Korean holiday!
You will have to clock in 2 hours before your classes start and leaving the school for longer than half and hour for
lunch or whatever could get you fired. The manager once was going to fire someone for being the girlfriend of another
teacher who was fired because of having two many sick days. That teacher had doctors notes too!!!
So, at all costs, my advice is don't go there. There are many schools out there will managers who won't treat you like
cattle.
=======================================
http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?read=132710135782
Excellent post
Posted By: again
Date: Thursday, 1 August 2002, at 1:41 p.m.
In Response To: Re: And another thing: Never e-mail anyone on ths (hamhock)
A school called YES in Ulsan went through 3 female foreign teachers in a two month period last year. Nobody knows why.
Just bad luck I guess. They only have 1 foreign teacher on staff.
you don't
======================================================
Avoid Yes Youngdo English Schools
Posted By: meg
Date: Tuesday, 15 October 2002, at 12:16 a.m.
Although Yes Youngdo English school offers an attractive holiday of 6 weeks, it is only a little comfort for all the
unpaid report writing hours and camera spying you are succumbed to.
The managers ------ and ------ treat the teachers like cattle and we are getting fired left right and centre, for
little reason. We are all walking on egg shells here.
I have heard that this school is black listed, which doesn't surprise me. A new rule is brought into action every
week. The latest is that compulsory blood tests are to be taken from every teacher once a month, and teachers have been
told to "stop posting messages on Daves". The school viciously protects its reputation and will fire you at the drop of
a hat, if they feel you are giving off a negative vibe.
Two months ago, there were many detailed stories of what Yes Youngdo is really about. I have noticed that they no
longer exist on this forum, which leads me to think that Yes Youngdo has had them removed to protect its image.
Avoid this school at all costs. They will be wonderful until you sign. Don't make the same mistake as me
====================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: Have you not seen
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2002, at 8:34 a.m.
postings about YES on this board? Stay far away. I had a personal experience with them,too. Stay away. They were going
to hire me a year ago,but then decided not to let me teach when I got there. I hurt my hand and I was taken to the
emergency room. When I refused to work the next day after being in the hospital all night,they decided not to fool with
me. I walked up the street and found a new school within a week and I stayed there one year.
=====================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: ginger
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 12:20 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147884" (Have you not seen)
I work at YES Youngdo English School. Recently I've noticed a few posts that was put up but I know it is from a
teacher that was recently fired from our school. He really didn't want to leave but I think the school and him just
didn't get along. There are things about the school I'm not happy with but overall I would say it is one of the best
schools in Korea. The six weeks paid vacation is true. The best thing to do is to ask whoever is recruiting you for
email addresses of the teachers at the school as well as a telephone interview with some of the teachers. This is what I
did when I decided on taking the job.
======================================================
believe it or not...
Posted By: canadienne
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 12:21 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
There's no need to be skeptical about the 6 weeks paid vacation. Myself and other teachers already took our one month
paid vacation. We will also have another one week vacation this Christmas and in the summer. If you're considering YES,
the contract is fair and it's been a pretty good experience so far. It has it's good and bad points but that's something
to expect from any hagwon.
======================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: missy
Date: Wednesday, 23 October 2002, at 7:39 p.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
I have had a horrible exerience with the school [YES Youngdo English School]. I know of 8 other teachers who also have
had bad treatment there. Stay far away and don't be lured by the 6 weeks vacation.
Feel free to email me if you are interested in the gorey details.
======================================================
Re: 6 weeks holiday
Posted By: shayne
Date: Thursday, 24 October 2002, at 9:30 a.m.
In Response To: "http://www.eslcafe.com/korea/index.cgi?noframes;read=132710147830" (Bill Wallace)
i don't know abour the holiday situation, but i've heard from other sites it's a place [Yes Youngdo English School] to
stay away from. in my view, any place that's offering something for nothing is something to be wary of.
apparently the management can be very nazi-ish, but maybe you'll find that most places in korea.
======================================================
August 26, 2009
Facebook Group on Yes Summer Vacation
Yes Youngdo - VACATION TIME CONFLICT
Global
Basic Info
Name: Yes Youngdo - VACATION TIME CONFLICT
Type: Business - Employment & Work
Description: This group is for the employees of Yes Youngdo who feel disappointed by the scheduling of the August vacation. As it is currently standing, the August vacation is scheduled from Tuesday, August 26th to Friday, August 29th. If the administration of Yes Youngdo were kind enough to give us August 25th off, we would have a total of 9 consecutive days off (after including the two weekends). A lot of us are planning to go to another country, so having 9 consecutive days off (oppose to the scheduled 6 days off) would make a world of difference. If enough people join this group, I will contact the administration of Yes Youngdo to try to negotiate a better deal. I will e-mail them a list of all the employees who have joined this group and try to use it as leverage. Maybe they would consider having us work another day in lieu of August 25th. Please invite everyone you know who works at Yes Youngdo to join this group.
**** I hope the teachers were able to work it out. I guess they're on their vacation now if it's this week. This is a problem teachers have at a lot of hagwons. I wouldn't blame YY for this too much. Being a hagwon, pleasing the parents is the #1 priority and most Koreans don't get one full week of vacation -- ever!
They don't really understand that one main reason teachers come to Korea is for the chance to take vacations in Thailand, Bali or wherever. I think YY should go above and beyond the hagwon norm by offering a full week's vacation. If they do the word will spread. Teachers vacationing in Bali or Koh Samui may pass it on to other travellers they meet, many who are potential ESL teachers in Korea, that they love the fact their hagwon YY gave them a full week off when other hagwons gave less! Someone interested in coming to Korea would remember that sort of thing.
BTW, when I worked for YY we had a 6 day summer break, Thursday - Tuesday. I took a trip and on the way met someone working for a smaller hagwon in a part of Korea I hadn't heard of and found she had 7. I felt embarassed telling her I had a shorter one and thought it was interesting someone working for an unknown hagwon in an unknown area had more vacation time!
Not long before that when talking to the manager who called me at home to say I'd been accepted, he said plainly that there was a week of summer vacation. I think it was my first day there when I talked to him before starting my classes that I found it was from a Thurs-Tues. I said to him that's not a week but he defended it by explaining that in Korea Saturday was considered a working day so our 6-day holiday included five working days which is the same as one week. And he was Korean-American! He knew better. He knew what foreign teachers expect when they hear the words one week.
Probably he was just following YY's policy which he had no control over. I wish he had just told the truth over the phone though! Now that I think about it I wouldn't have liked hearing that, but I probably would've taken the job anyway. I had already decided to take it at the time he called, to the best of my memory.
Global
Basic Info
Name: Yes Youngdo - VACATION TIME CONFLICT
Type: Business - Employment & Work
Description: This group is for the employees of Yes Youngdo who feel disappointed by the scheduling of the August vacation. As it is currently standing, the August vacation is scheduled from Tuesday, August 26th to Friday, August 29th. If the administration of Yes Youngdo were kind enough to give us August 25th off, we would have a total of 9 consecutive days off (after including the two weekends). A lot of us are planning to go to another country, so having 9 consecutive days off (oppose to the scheduled 6 days off) would make a world of difference. If enough people join this group, I will contact the administration of Yes Youngdo to try to negotiate a better deal. I will e-mail them a list of all the employees who have joined this group and try to use it as leverage. Maybe they would consider having us work another day in lieu of August 25th. Please invite everyone you know who works at Yes Youngdo to join this group.
**** I hope the teachers were able to work it out. I guess they're on their vacation now if it's this week. This is a problem teachers have at a lot of hagwons. I wouldn't blame YY for this too much. Being a hagwon, pleasing the parents is the #1 priority and most Koreans don't get one full week of vacation -- ever!
They don't really understand that one main reason teachers come to Korea is for the chance to take vacations in Thailand, Bali or wherever. I think YY should go above and beyond the hagwon norm by offering a full week's vacation. If they do the word will spread. Teachers vacationing in Bali or Koh Samui may pass it on to other travellers they meet, many who are potential ESL teachers in Korea, that they love the fact their hagwon YY gave them a full week off when other hagwons gave less! Someone interested in coming to Korea would remember that sort of thing.
BTW, when I worked for YY we had a 6 day summer break, Thursday - Tuesday. I took a trip and on the way met someone working for a smaller hagwon in a part of Korea I hadn't heard of and found she had 7. I felt embarassed telling her I had a shorter one and thought it was interesting someone working for an unknown hagwon in an unknown area had more vacation time!
Not long before that when talking to the manager who called me at home to say I'd been accepted, he said plainly that there was a week of summer vacation. I think it was my first day there when I talked to him before starting my classes that I found it was from a Thurs-Tues. I said to him that's not a week but he defended it by explaining that in Korea Saturday was considered a working day so our 6-day holiday included five working days which is the same as one week. And he was Korean-American! He knew better. He knew what foreign teachers expect when they hear the words one week.
Probably he was just following YY's policy which he had no control over. I wish he had just told the truth over the phone though! Now that I think about it I wouldn't have liked hearing that, but I probably would've taken the job anyway. I had already decided to take it at the time he called, to the best of my memory.
August 25, 2009
One Former Teacher's Story on Video
This video can be found at youtube. I copied one of his comments posted below his video and pasted it here below the link. I have no idea who this teacher is. The story may be false but I would guess it's not.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ts_Z2M4ugc
The workload steadily increased while the benefits stayed the same. I do agree with you that attitude has everything to do with it. I loved my experience in Korea. I loved the lifestyle and the culture. I continued to teach ESL in Canada when I returned because it truely is an amazing experience, but this company in particular has declined in quality over the 2+ years I have knowledge of. And based on the fact that it is completely family run, nothing short of a miracle will changed that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ts_Z2M4ugc
The workload steadily increased while the benefits stayed the same. I do agree with you that attitude has everything to do with it. I loved my experience in Korea. I loved the lifestyle and the culture. I continued to teach ESL in Canada when I returned because it truely is an amazing experience, but this company in particular has declined in quality over the 2+ years I have knowledge of. And based on the fact that it is completely family run, nothing short of a miracle will changed that.
June 5, 2009
What I'd Say to YY Teachers
To current or former teachers who had an enjoyable experience, I would say first of all, that's great, I'm glad you had a good year, two years or whatever. I'm glad you were able to work so long, finish your contract and leave satisfied with the overall experience.
Then I'd say I'm not trying to bring down YY by writing this blog and I don't want to do anything to hurt the teachers there - past, present or future.
After that I'd say that I think you and all other teachers in Korea (and others) need to be aware of the many types of experiences people have had working in Korea from absolute best to absolute worst.
Even if I were totally satisfied working a some hagwon I would want to know all of these stories.
I can't say though how other teachers would feel. Maybe some wouldn't want to know. I'd have to ask them.
What about Korean mothers sending kids to hagwons or other average Koreans working at all kinds of jobs? If I were them I'd want to know, really would. I can't speak for them of course.
'Til next time.
Then I'd say I'm not trying to bring down YY by writing this blog and I don't want to do anything to hurt the teachers there - past, present or future.
After that I'd say that I think you and all other teachers in Korea (and others) need to be aware of the many types of experiences people have had working in Korea from absolute best to absolute worst.
Even if I were totally satisfied working a some hagwon I would want to know all of these stories.
I can't say though how other teachers would feel. Maybe some wouldn't want to know. I'd have to ask them.
What about Korean mothers sending kids to hagwons or other average Koreans working at all kinds of jobs? If I were them I'd want to know, really would. I can't speak for them of course.
'Til next time.
Why Didn't I Quit??
I think people hear stories of teachers in Korea having bad experiences and ask themselves this question, 'Why didn't they quit?'
Everyone would give their own answer. In my case if I think about being at Yes and wanting to quit, I remember that I thought to myself that I should just hold out until the end. I liked some things about the job. I probably didn't want to do the job search again and I am pretty sure that I said to myself that I could find another job after finishing at Yes. Also at the time I was repaying student loans like a lot of people and wanted to send home money every month continuously. Having time between jobs would mean sending home less money or none one month and I wanted those loans gone! ^^
Not long ago I was talking with a young, first year in Korea teacher who wasn't having an overall good time. She said to me her student loans were also one thing that kept her teaching in Korea. I'm happy that she's in her country now.
How many answers would people get to this question? Some things I've thought of over time are these: some foreign teachers have a spouse or relationship with someone living in Korea, westerners take contracts seriously and don't want to break them, resumes - having to write that you worked at some school for something like 4, 6, or 9 months may make it harder to find a job later, not wanting to tell the family that you quit, needing the money, liking some aspects of your job, wanting to stay in Korea for fun, friends or a variety of reasons...others? I would say that a reason a lot of people didn't quit is that they made a decision to hold out until the end and then look for better work as I did. After lots of experience in Korea I believe that to be true.
One more possibility, not wanting to return to one's country, particularly now considering the global economy.
Everyone would give their own answer. In my case if I think about being at Yes and wanting to quit, I remember that I thought to myself that I should just hold out until the end. I liked some things about the job. I probably didn't want to do the job search again and I am pretty sure that I said to myself that I could find another job after finishing at Yes. Also at the time I was repaying student loans like a lot of people and wanted to send home money every month continuously. Having time between jobs would mean sending home less money or none one month and I wanted those loans gone! ^^
Not long ago I was talking with a young, first year in Korea teacher who wasn't having an overall good time. She said to me her student loans were also one thing that kept her teaching in Korea. I'm happy that she's in her country now.
How many answers would people get to this question? Some things I've thought of over time are these: some foreign teachers have a spouse or relationship with someone living in Korea, westerners take contracts seriously and don't want to break them, resumes - having to write that you worked at some school for something like 4, 6, or 9 months may make it harder to find a job later, not wanting to tell the family that you quit, needing the money, liking some aspects of your job, wanting to stay in Korea for fun, friends or a variety of reasons...others? I would say that a reason a lot of people didn't quit is that they made a decision to hold out until the end and then look for better work as I did. After lots of experience in Korea I believe that to be true.
One more possibility, not wanting to return to one's country, particularly now considering the global economy.
February 1, 2009
Most Important Thing
More important than anything else is that employers of foreign teachers in Korea treat their teachers with fairness and respect. Second most important thing is to have good communication always. If this were to happen the problems would decrease by 90%. There'd be fewer harsh posts on Dave's Esl Cafe and other sites. There would be a lot more positive posts. Yes Youngdo is one among the many hagwons and other workplaces that fell short in this area.
January 2, 2009
This Kind of Post Brings Up Questions
http://www.eslteachersboard.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.pl?noframes;read=3681
Here you find a teacher asking whether Yes Youngdo is a good place to work. Then there are other prospective teachers comments, and then a post from a then YY teacher who writes about only good things.
Does it occur to anyone that YY is very likely asking teachers to respond to these posts with good info about working there? And since the prospective teacher is asking about one branch in a certain city, and the current teacher who responded is one who knows about that branch, doesn't it seem likely that management asked this person specifically to post here?
In other posts I found on other sites I saw that teachers said the best way to find out about Yes was to talk to teachers currently working there and that the institute would provide their contact info.
I can't help but wonder while reading these posts why the teachers don't seem to realize that YY would obviously only give out the contact info of teachers who will definitely say positive things -probably those who are close to management or considered the best teachers.
Here you find a teacher asking whether Yes Youngdo is a good place to work. Then there are other prospective teachers comments, and then a post from a then YY teacher who writes about only good things.
Does it occur to anyone that YY is very likely asking teachers to respond to these posts with good info about working there? And since the prospective teacher is asking about one branch in a certain city, and the current teacher who responded is one who knows about that branch, doesn't it seem likely that management asked this person specifically to post here?
In other posts I found on other sites I saw that teachers said the best way to find out about Yes was to talk to teachers currently working there and that the institute would provide their contact info.
I can't help but wonder while reading these posts why the teachers don't seem to realize that YY would obviously only give out the contact info of teachers who will definitely say positive things -probably those who are close to management or considered the best teachers.
More on My Experience
I managed to work at Yes Youngdo for some time without ever hearing that I was supposedly not up to standard. In a period of less than two weeks, I was told that I was basically not doing a good job, had several talks with a manager, told him I was thinking of quittinq, told him that I didn't like Yes Youngdo's teaching program, told him that things there weren't the same as what I had been used to at previous hagwon, was told by him "I think it will be ok" meaning I'd be ok continuing to work there, and finally after a break of a few days or so I was told to leave. Question: Would this happen at a regular school in the US/Canada or another English speaking country?
When talking about the teaching program I said to the manager that the kids didn't like any of the books we had read. He said that you need to jazz it up. That's fine, but until that point he had never given me any advice on how to do that. Also at my former hagwon there were so many different activities that it was very easy to make them enjoyable. How do you make storybooks or textbooks enjoyable when the kids don't like them? I guess there's a way, but at that point I didn't have much experience with this.
As I recall there were eventually meetings where the manager taught us a method he wanted us to use when teaching, but this didn't start until a few weeks before I left. It must've been great for the teachers who started later.
The management seemed to look at 'experienced' teachers differently than new ones. However the teachers I worked with who were experienced had only up to a few years experience. Something Yes Youngdo should recognize is that teachers who get accustomed to teaching one way at one school/hagwon may need to be retrained. I think even qualified, experienced school teachers in the US/Canada would find the Yes Youngdo style of teaching to be totally different, and would need some training. They'd need to learn how to teach in a hagwon, particularly what the management expects at the one they work at. They would though be far ahead of those with no experience.
When talking about the teaching program I said to the manager that the kids didn't like any of the books we had read. He said that you need to jazz it up. That's fine, but until that point he had never given me any advice on how to do that. Also at my former hagwon there were so many different activities that it was very easy to make them enjoyable. How do you make storybooks or textbooks enjoyable when the kids don't like them? I guess there's a way, but at that point I didn't have much experience with this.
As I recall there were eventually meetings where the manager taught us a method he wanted us to use when teaching, but this didn't start until a few weeks before I left. It must've been great for the teachers who started later.
The management seemed to look at 'experienced' teachers differently than new ones. However the teachers I worked with who were experienced had only up to a few years experience. Something Yes Youngdo should recognize is that teachers who get accustomed to teaching one way at one school/hagwon may need to be retrained. I think even qualified, experienced school teachers in the US/Canada would find the Yes Youngdo style of teaching to be totally different, and would need some training. They'd need to learn how to teach in a hagwon, particularly what the management expects at the one they work at. They would though be far ahead of those with no experience.
December 3, 2008
Websites Redone, Posts on Yes Youngdo Gone
Well I can see that this blog has had visitors. I welcome comments, questions or stories of your own experiences.
As I wrote before it's disappointing that some links to sites which had stories written by former Yes Youngdo teachers have been redone. With some stories going back to 2002 it's suprising that the sites were updated not long after I started writing this blog. If you look at my early posts you can see notes I added explaining this. Refer to the post titled: "Former Teacher's Stories" which is my third from the bottom.
I have a little feeling that someone working for this hagwon contacted certain people asking that the posts be removed or what have you. Wouldn't be the first time!
As I wrote before it's disappointing that some links to sites which had stories written by former Yes Youngdo teachers have been redone. With some stories going back to 2002 it's suprising that the sites were updated not long after I started writing this blog. If you look at my early posts you can see notes I added explaining this. Refer to the post titled: "Former Teacher's Stories" which is my third from the bottom.
I have a little feeling that someone working for this hagwon contacted certain people asking that the posts be removed or what have you. Wouldn't be the first time!
November 16, 2008
Link and Photo
I'd like to add this link here: http://briandeutsch.blogspot.com/2008/10/six-english-chains-fined.html This is an article about hagwon chains being fined at another teacher's blog. Yes Youngdo is one of the schools.
I also decided to add this photo which was posted online by a current or former teacher. It shows the reception and sitting area of one of the branches of YY. When I worked for the hagwon we had a room like this but it wasn't nearly as nice.
I also decided to add this photo which was posted online by a current or former teacher. It shows the reception and sitting area of one of the branches of YY. When I worked for the hagwon we had a room like this but it wasn't nearly as nice.
November 5, 2008
Which Teacher Goes First?
I was never part of the management team at Yes Youngdo but I think I know something about this process. The manager talked to me a lot about this and I believe this is what happens each time someone is chosen who will be let go. I'll try to explain as best I can.
Based on what the manager of my branch told me not long before I left there were five-six teachers there that he wanted to leave. And the total number was 16! If the manager wasn't counting me because I was already due to leave, that means he was looking at a group of only 15. Consider the proportion of teachers he wanted to fire: 5-6 out of 15. Five makes 1/3 of them and 6 is 40%. The manager hired a new teacher and started processing their visa just at the time he told me to leave. During the period I had between then and actually going, about ten days, I learned a lot about the situation - hiring, firing and making a decision. The manager said to me later that they decided, I think really he did, that I would be the first to leave. Please read below for more explanation. To put it simply: one new teacher came who would replace one of the existing teachers. The group of 16 teachers was looked at and particularly the group of six or so who weren't doing well according to their standards. Out of those one teacher was chosen who would be let go, and the rest would stay until replacements could be found, until they quit or possibly improved their status to "good teacher."
I believe the process of choosing which teacher to fire went like this. The manager and other staff considered these things:
Based on what the manager of my branch told me not long before I left there were five-six teachers there that he wanted to leave. And the total number was 16! If the manager wasn't counting me because I was already due to leave, that means he was looking at a group of only 15. Consider the proportion of teachers he wanted to fire: 5-6 out of 15. Five makes 1/3 of them and 6 is 40%. The manager hired a new teacher and started processing their visa just at the time he told me to leave. During the period I had between then and actually going, about ten days, I learned a lot about the situation - hiring, firing and making a decision. The manager said to me later that they decided, I think really he did, that I would be the first to leave. Please read below for more explanation. To put it simply: one new teacher came who would replace one of the existing teachers. The group of 16 teachers was looked at and particularly the group of six or so who weren't doing well according to their standards. Out of those one teacher was chosen who would be let go, and the rest would stay until replacements could be found, until they quit or possibly improved their status to "good teacher."
I believe the process of choosing which teacher to fire went like this. The manager and other staff considered these things:
- Some teachers came alone while others came as couples.
- If you fire a single teacher you need find only one replacement, but if you fire a teacher who's part of a couple, the other teacher will most likely quit.
- Finding two replacements at one time is a lot harder than finding one.
- Some teachers also came in pairs such as two girls who are friends.
- Firing one would upset the other, possibly causing her to quit.
- Some teachers had worked several months while many were new having worked only about one month.
- Firing a teacher who's only been there for about a month may seem unfair to the other teachers while firing one who has worked longer makes more sense.
- Firing a teacher who is friends with several other teachers could upset them or hurt the hagwon's reputation if he/she tells them how they were treated.
- A teacher who is well-known or has connections with others such as parents, other hagwons, media, etc. could cause a lot of problems if fired.
I believe after considering so many things, Yes Youngdo chooses the teacher who is not necessarily the worst teacher in the hagwon, but who is the most convenient to fire, the easiest to let go of. A teacher who couldn't cause too many problems such as upsetting other teachers, causing others to quit, talking to students' parents or hurting the hagwon in some other way is the best candidate for dismissal.
- I want to add here that I think it's absolutely wrong for the hagwon to allow six teachers to continue working thinking everything is ok when there is a plan to eventually let them go. Anyone at Yes Youngdo at that time would have said the replacements must be found before teachers are let go but it's still not right in my opinion. Substitutes could be found. Teachers or managers could cover the classes.
Yes Youngdo vs. My Previous Hagwon
The biggest problem I had working day-to-day at my first hagwon in Korea was that the working days were way too long!! We had kindergarten in the morning and early afternoon, elementary school after that and even middle school classes. Last classes finished around 7:30. First ones began around 9:30. That made for a long day!
When I was doing the job search which led to finding employment with Yes Youngdo, the very first thing I looked for in a job was shorter working hours. After that I considered the pay and location. When I found the job at Yes Youngdo I was tired of the job search and wanted to get something ASAP. The fairly short ad on Dave's Esl Cafe which led to my apply stated the working hours were 2-10pm M-F. It may have also said the teaching hours were 4-10. I was satisfied with that. It seemed much better than the hours I had though I would've prefered a little less. When I started working I did feel a difference working shorter days.
However, If I were to make a list of all the pros and cons of the two hagwons, I think I would find that Yes Youngdo fell short in every single area except the working hours.
When I was doing the job search which led to finding employment with Yes Youngdo, the very first thing I looked for in a job was shorter working hours. After that I considered the pay and location. When I found the job at Yes Youngdo I was tired of the job search and wanted to get something ASAP. The fairly short ad on Dave's Esl Cafe which led to my apply stated the working hours were 2-10pm M-F. It may have also said the teaching hours were 4-10. I was satisfied with that. It seemed much better than the hours I had though I would've prefered a little less. When I started working I did feel a difference working shorter days.
However, If I were to make a list of all the pros and cons of the two hagwons, I think I would find that Yes Youngdo fell short in every single area except the working hours.
- Apartment - previous hagwon gave us singles while at Yes Youngdo we shared.
- distance to hagwon - previous hagwon was 2 minute walk from apartment; at Yes Youngdo it was 10 minutes.
- class size - previous hagwon - up to 10, often less; Yes Youngdo - 14, sometimes less
- classroom size - previous hagwon - big enough for teacher to move around room comfortably, space between teacher and students, students sat in tables aranged in U-shape, teacher could easily attend to each student; at Yes Youngdo - this was really bad! 14 desks in 3 rows with absolutely no space between them, teacher had small space at front of room, when standing in front I was looking at the 2nd row, not the first, no way to reach students in 2nd or 3rd row to offer help except for maybe moving desks around.
- curriculum - big difference - previous hagwon we taught many subjects, sometimes did art projects or sang songs, other interesting projects, teacher was free to teach as they wanted as long as they covered the material for each month; at Yes Youngdo every single class was planned! There was so much to do, no time for extra activities. And every class was to be conducted with exactly the same activities in the same order everyday.
- Tests/Quizzes - at my previous hagwon we could give quizzes when we wanted, a test was required once a month. we were free to use the hagwon's test, make our own or combine them. At Yes Youngdo we had to give a quiz in every class, same vocabulary quiz each time. I was never told that I could make my own.
- Homework: at my previous hagwon we were expected to give homework sometimes, however it was up to us how often we gave it. Also we could give any type we wanted. We could even assign artwork as homework or writing a poem. At Yes Youngdo we had to assign homework everyday, and the homework assignments as I remember were all the same! Answering questions in a workbook over the reading done in class was the only type of homework I remember. And the beginning of each class had to be spent going over it!
- American textbooks: Yes Youngdo was proud to have these as part of their curriculum. Only problem was that the students in my class didn't seem to understand. They had to read texts full of short stories designed for US high and middle school students. I remember on the first day reading one sentence from a short story they had read and thinking there's no way they can understand that! At my first hagwon the manager stressed to me once that it was important for the students to understand. I never used such difficult material there as I recall.
- Apartment furnishings - At both hagwons we had tables, beds, chairs. At my former hagwon I had a TV and VCR though it took some time to get them from the school. At Yes Youngdo in my apartment there was only one TV which didn't work very well and it was kept in the room of the person I shared the apartment with. Also at my former hagwon I had a phone while at Yes Youngdo there was none. I had to make some trips to the pay phones because I hadn't yet bought a cell phone. I didn't know what steps foreigners had to take to acquire a cell phone and no one at Yes Youngdo offered any help! Eventually I got one but not after going through some phone cards and borrowing friends' cell phones a few times. I heard some complaints of showers not working well from Yes Youngdo teachers.
- Coming to Korea: at my previous hagwon someone was sent to pick up each teacher from the airport. At Yes Youngdo it wasn't this way.
- Trip to Immigration Office: The owner of my first hagwon took me and another teacher by car one Saturday morning and then to lunch afterwards. At Yes Youngdo the manager gave me the necessary information and told me to take the subway some morning.
- Birthdays/Going-Aways: At my first hagwon every single time a teacher had a birthday or finished their stay the boss arranged for a cake, drinks, or pizza and bought a card which was signed by everyone. Candles were lit. Little fireworks. Whole nine yards. During one of the breaktimes we had a mini party. At Yes Youngdo there was none of it - nothing. Not a word was said by the management about teachers who were leaving. I couldn't help but notice this. Several teachers had birthdays or finished their contracts while I was there.
- Special Activities: Again, my first hagwon won here. Since we were in control of the classes as long as we covered the material there was time for an occasion class trip to McDonald's, a soccer game, singing Christmas carols, coloring a large Christmas tree and other decorations, spending a class playing games in honor of a student's birthday, going away or another special time. There was also an all day festival at Halloween with the teachers in costume and part of the hagwon converted into a haunted house. I'm sure there was more but this is all I can think of at this time. Once I got into teaching at Yes Youngdo, not only was it disappointing to realize that my new hagwon fell short in so many areas, but also looking ahead I guessed that we would never have any of these special activities at Halloween, Christmas or another time. I do remember that there was a little class time for games on some occasions at Yes Youngdo if the material was covered, but there was so much to do in every class there wasn't much time like this.
- Help/Advice/Discipline/Management: This was interesting to say the least. At my first hagwon there were two manager who spoke English perfectly whom we could go to when any questions and problems came up. And they always do when you're a foreign teacher working at a Korean hagwon! Also, when a problem was really serious, we had the option of going to talk to the owner of the school. The manager and owner also took care of discipline problems. Well at Yes Youngdo it was different. When I arrived we had one manager who was a young Korean-American who didn't like his job or living in Korea according to the other teachers. I never heard of teachers going to him to ask about their classes or apartments. I didn't feel that he was really there to help us. He didn't seem to want to help us now that I recall. Later he was replaced by a manager who took his job seriously but mistreated a lot of teachers according to the links I've posted. When we had a discipline problem we were supposed to go to an office girl who was young, not long out of college, and who didn't really like her job either! She wasn't really good with discipline, not as strict as someone in that job needs to be. While I was working there it was announced that she was going to move on to another, probably better job.
- More about the managers: At my first hagwon the two managers had years of hagwon experience, took their jobs seriously, and seemed satisfied with their jobs. At Yes Youngdo the manager and the girl taking care of discipline problems when I arrived were both young, without much experience, and not satisfied with their jobs. The next manager who came was older, more experienced, and worked harder. However thinking back on him, how he treated teachers, his attitude, I don't think he was very happy all around and I don't think he really liked his job. When you are a foreign teacher at a hagwon, these people are very important! If you want to have a good hagwon you must have great people in these positions!
- Photos: At my first hagwon a professional photographer was brought in to take group and individual photos. We all received free copies. At Yes Youngdo, after arriving, the manager told me to one day walk down the street to have a photo taken for 15,000 won which would be reimbursed.
- Teacher's room: My previous hagwon had two spaces in two buildings. When I left all the teachers were working in a building which had a large, very comfortable teacher's room. Each teacher had their own space, chair and cabinet for storage. It was nice looking. At Yes Youngdo we had a smaller room with a table and chairs around it which looked more sterile. There wasn't enough room for all the teachers to sit at the table at one time. During break times some teachers went to this room while others probably stayed in their own rooms or went to a certain place to smoke. Had we had spacious and comfortable classrooms then I don't think the teachers rooom would have matter so much, but we didn't.
- Decor: As I remember the office and all the rooms at Yes Youngdo were painted white, sterile and without decor. At my previous hagwon the walls were painted colors like pink or blue and the teachers covered the walls of their classrooms with students' artwork and posters which the hagwon provided.
- Trips: At my former hagwon we were taken on several day or overnight trips to places like Kangwan-do. While employed at Yes Youngdo there was no trip like this, nor did I hear of one in the past. Later on I did read online that there was one. What's funny is that I asked about this while talking to the manager over the phone when he called to say I'd been accepted. I asked about trips, meaning for the staff and teachers, and he told me that two teachers had travelled to Cheju-do together. I didn't ask more about it.
- Taking teachers out to dinner: (This is one perk that a lot of foreign teachers enjoy. Koreans love to eat out.) Every now and then all the teachers and staff at my previous hagwon were taken out to a restaurant such as VIPs. At YY one time the owner took the teachers out in groups to a restaurant. That my was only chance to really talk to him that I remember. Also one manager and the teachers were instructed to meet someplace for lunch. Some teachers were new then and didn't know how to get to this place. The management didn't explain. I remember explaining it to them myself just a short time before we were supposed to be there. At my previous hagwon we all went together, as I recall driven by the owners or other staff members. We didn't have to pay for the taxi or subway then, but at YY we were expected to.
- Getting Sick! - every teacher coming to Korea knows about this, especially those going to Seoul. So what do you do when you first get sick? It helps a lot to have someone from your workplace guide you to a doctor's office or pharmacy and explain in Korean what is wrong. Now that I think about it...both of my hagwons did well here.
The list goes on. (I've actually come back and added to it twice since first publishing this post.) I'm surprised at just how much I remember, and how many ways in which Yes Youngdo didn't measure up. Anyone reading this is probably dying to ask one question: Why didn't I quit? I'm asking myself that. I'm going to explain that soon in another writing.
If I had known about either of these two things I wouldn't have taken this job: class size and classroom size. After teaching up to 10 in each class at my former hagwon, I never, never would have accepted an offer from Yes Youngdo had I known there were 14 per class. Simply put, it's hard enough to manage ten extremely energetic kids after school in a hagwon class.The job ad at Dave's Esl Cafe which led me to apply didn't include that information at that time. Had the job advertisement mentioned this I would have kept looking. I'm absolutely sure of this.
As far as the classroom size goes, had I seen the hagwon particularly the classrooms before signing the contract I wouldn't have signed it. I would advise teachers coming to Korea to forget the free airfare and go ahead and buy their ticket so that they can check places out before working there. Were I looking for a new teaching job now in Korea I would definitely do this.
I'm adding here that the classroom was so small that I don't think it would be allowed in an institute in the US/CAN/AU or other countries English teachers come from. 14 kids plus 1 teacher = 15 people. I know that Western countries have laws regarding how large classrooms, meeting rooms and such places need to be.
Talk about claustrophobia! I could take the Seoul subway on a Saturday afternoon and not feel claustrophobic but I definitely felt it in this classroom. And I think the kids did too. Of course they don't realize the lack of space is getting to them, they just feel antsy.
I'll be checking this post again and may add more.
October 16, 2008
Finding the Job Through a Process of Elimination
Something I realized while thinking back on my difficult Yes Youndo experience was the fact that a job with them wasn't my first choice. After finishing a contract at one hagwon, I had several options. I could go to work somewhere else in Korea, return to my former hagwon or work in Taiwan. For a time I looked for jobs in Taiwan. I don't want to go into the whole story, but some things such as knowing I'd lose 20% of my income in tax and having to pay$1200 for airfare got me to go back to Korea. I was like most teachers I knew then repaying student loans. I knew if I had to pay for my airfare then I'd have to repay it with my first paycheck and then return to paying off my student loan.
As far as returning to my former hagwon, it was the number of problems there that kept me from signing a second contract. The biggest problems were long work days and not being able to trust the boss. It's good that I didn't go back because the situation became much worse. The first thing I looked for when looking for new jobs was shorter working hours. I was satisfied with what Yes Youngdo offered. Free mornings. Classes in a six hour block straight through 4-10pm. My previous hagwon had classes going from morning 'til night so this sounded like heaven.
I ruled out other options and made the decision to accept a contract with Yes Youngdo. It definitely wasn't my first choice or my idea of a perfect job. I chose it because I thought the conditions were all reasonable or as good as could be expected and it seemed logical to take that job. My biggest priorities then: pay off student loans and do some travelling in Asia.
As far as returning to my former hagwon, it was the number of problems there that kept me from signing a second contract. The biggest problems were long work days and not being able to trust the boss. It's good that I didn't go back because the situation became much worse. The first thing I looked for when looking for new jobs was shorter working hours. I was satisfied with what Yes Youngdo offered. Free mornings. Classes in a six hour block straight through 4-10pm. My previous hagwon had classes going from morning 'til night so this sounded like heaven.
I ruled out other options and made the decision to accept a contract with Yes Youngdo. It definitely wasn't my first choice or my idea of a perfect job. I chose it because I thought the conditions were all reasonable or as good as could be expected and it seemed logical to take that job. My biggest priorities then: pay off student loans and do some travelling in Asia.
October 10, 2008
Bending the Rules
During the time I worked at this hagwon, there was a period when they were short of teachers. One of the hagwons teachers happened to be in a bar one night where he ran into a teacher who was willing to teach there for a time. While we worked together, I got to know this person a little and found out they didn't have a degree, and were living in Korea on a tourist visa. Hiring a teacher living in Korea on a tourist visa was illegal.
On another occasion one teacher returned home for a while due to a family emergency. The hagwon had one of their former teachers who was working elsewhere cover for this teacher. Working at more than one job on a teaching visa was illegal, at least it was then. Neither of these fill-in teachers were of Korean descent. At that time teachers born in Korea could get a different visa which allowed employment at any number of jobs.
In addition to this, during my period of employment I worked with some young Korean-American and Korean-Canadian teachers. None of them had yet finished their degrees. There was even one, maybe two teachers who had never enrolled in college. And another had dropped out as I recall. One of them couldn't speak English fluently.
On another occasion one teacher returned home for a while due to a family emergency. The hagwon had one of their former teachers who was working elsewhere cover for this teacher. Working at more than one job on a teaching visa was illegal, at least it was then. Neither of these fill-in teachers were of Korean descent. At that time teachers born in Korea could get a different visa which allowed employment at any number of jobs.
In addition to this, during my period of employment I worked with some young Korean-American and Korean-Canadian teachers. None of them had yet finished their degrees. There was even one, maybe two teachers who had never enrolled in college. And another had dropped out as I recall. One of them couldn't speak English fluently.
October 6, 2008
Advertising for Teachers
What happens when you go to Google and do a search using the words "teaching in Korea" or go to a great blog called "The Daily Kimchi" http://thedailykimchi.blogspot.com? There will be a link for Yes Youngdo. And as it has been for years at Dave's Esl Cafe at the Korea Job Board www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea there's the post for Yes Youngdo which is put up to recruit teachers. Lately when I'm online I see their ad all over. I can do a search for anything related to Korea and find the link the their site.
When I was working for Yes Youngdo at one weekly meeting the manager let us know that he'd gotten 50 or 100 resumes in the last 1-2 days from prospective teachers. I think this was a scare tactic, don't think he wanted to scare teachers out of their wits, but I think he wanted to put a little fear and respect into them.
With advertising like this, and considering the number of teachers in Korea, as well as guessing how many there may be who want to come, Yes Youngdo is receiving at least 1,000 resumes per week, every week of the year. At least. That's my estimate. Their advertisement and their website make them look great. Who wouldn't apply? And it's funny to think that teacher's take special care looking for a job in Korea and are more likely to choose a school with a great site, many pictures of teachers who look happy, and language such as "reputable" or "established" or "since 1987."
I've looked at their advertisements. At one point they were saying in their ad that they never paid a teacher late or had a teacher do a midnight run. Consider this:
When I was working for Yes Youngdo at one weekly meeting the manager let us know that he'd gotten 50 or 100 resumes in the last 1-2 days from prospective teachers. I think this was a scare tactic, don't think he wanted to scare teachers out of their wits, but I think he wanted to put a little fear and respect into them.
With advertising like this, and considering the number of teachers in Korea, as well as guessing how many there may be who want to come, Yes Youngdo is receiving at least 1,000 resumes per week, every week of the year. At least. That's my estimate. Their advertisement and their website make them look great. Who wouldn't apply? And it's funny to think that teacher's take special care looking for a job in Korea and are more likely to choose a school with a great site, many pictures of teachers who look happy, and language such as "reputable" or "established" or "since 1987."
I've looked at their advertisements. At one point they were saying in their ad that they never paid a teacher late or had a teacher do a midnight run. Consider this:
- They may or may not be telling the truth.
- They have enough money so can avoid paying a teacher late.
- Maybe no teacher pulled a midnight run, but how many didn't finish their contracts?
It would make sense if hagwons such as Yes Youngdo would add a bit of info to their ad or site:
- Percentage of teachers who complete their contracts.
- Percentage who would give their experience a high rating.
- Percentage who would sign a contract for a second year.
- Percentage who would allow their best friend, sister or mother to accept a one-year contract.
Another thing I also read in their job advertisements was that any teacher thinking to work there could call or email any of the teachers to ask questions. Anyone with a little experience could guess that they will take care which phone numbers or email addresses to give out! They obviously don't want a prospective teacher to talk to someone who's unhappy, feeling cheated or not a good teacher by their standards.
October 5, 2008
A Few Things I'd Say to the Owners
As I recall this institute, Yes Youngdo, was owned by a couple who only occasionally talked to the teachers. I can remember talking to each one just a few times. This was a change for me because at my previous hagwwon teachers having a serious issue to discuss would bypass the manager or other staff and go straight to the owner. I did this several times. I remember once I went to one of the owners to talk about something and they were nice but asked me to go to the manager. This reminds me that while working for Yes I was given very little, almost no explanation of how things were run, who I could go to for help and even how to teach. Unbelievable!
Here are some things I would say to the owners of Yes Youngdo if I had a chance:
Here are some things I would say to the owners of Yes Youngdo if I had a chance:
- I think you made a mistake allowing managers to have full authority to hire, train, guide and fire teachers working for you.
- If you had been more involved it would have been much better I think.
- I would have loved to be able to talk to you more, ask for advice or explain to you how I felt I was mistreated.
- I guess you eventually realized that the managers had mistreated some of the teachers after seeing all the bad posts on the ESL websites.
- The teachers who were mistreated or fired unfairly are going to remember their experiences, and the name of Yes Youngdo for the rest of their lives.
- There's also a good chance that their negative experiences at Yes Youngdo will affect the way they see Korea and Korean people.
- When they return to their countries they may influence the way others see Korea by telling their personal stories.
- Most likely some potential teachers decided not to work for Yes Youngdo after talking to teachers who had been treated unfairly or reading stories on the internet.
A Little of My Experience
It was nice to get a call from the manager at Yes Youngdo to find out I had been hired. However after that, from the time I travelled to Korea to the short period before I started working, to the start of work, the first few weeks and through the end and then after - I felt mostly these things: feeling I was in the wrong place, not feeling comfortable with the managers, (there were two) regretting my choice, wondering if I'd make it through to the end, telling myself that I'd work until the end even though I wasn't happy...the list could go on. It wasn't all hell, I had some very good classes in fact one of my favorite classes of all time was there - a grammar class which was three hours long no less. I also had some good times with the other teachers, some privates, and a few good times in the area where I lived. So it wasn't all bad! However, I'd say it was mostly bad and had it gone on for a whole year it would mean a lot more bad memories I guess.
I left Yes Youngdo after a period which wasn't very long. It was less than six months. The manager that I worked for thinks he fired me, but if he were honest he would say that I also wanted to quit. About a week before "being fired" I told him I wanted to quit. Because of this and because I told him I wasn't happy there and I didn't like the teaching program, I don't consider this a firing. (Though he may.)
Also, I want to add that due to all the bad posts I read about Yes Youngdo at some websites, I think that a lot of teachers were "fired" in some cases actually fired, some may have been goaded into quitting, some who quit may have been considered fired. One post I saw in the past had one teacher getting on and asking about a certain branch. One respondent wrote this branch had fired five teachers over the past several months. I will try to locate this post.
I left Yes Youngdo after a period which wasn't very long. It was less than six months. The manager that I worked for thinks he fired me, but if he were honest he would say that I also wanted to quit. About a week before "being fired" I told him I wanted to quit. Because of this and because I told him I wasn't happy there and I didn't like the teaching program, I don't consider this a firing. (Though he may.)
Also, I want to add that due to all the bad posts I read about Yes Youngdo at some websites, I think that a lot of teachers were "fired" in some cases actually fired, some may have been goaded into quitting, some who quit may have been considered fired. One post I saw in the past had one teacher getting on and asking about a certain branch. One respondent wrote this branch had fired five teachers over the past several months. I will try to locate this post.
September 28, 2008
One Teacher's Dismissal
There was one teacher employed at Yes Youngdo who was fired and given only a week left on their visa. This meant they had to leave the country within a week or pay a fine for overstaying. I heard from other teachers that they couldn't get a flight back to the US/Canada and settled for one to Europe. They also said that this person said they wished they had been given a little more notice. In my opinion, even if a hagwon has every reason to fire a teacher, they have to be considerate. Losing your job as an English teacher in Korea means losing your apartment and your visa. In some countries, for example China, foreign teachers can hold on to their visa after leaving a job.
Losing your job, your income, your visa, having to move out of your apartment, finding a plane ticket, saying goodbye to your friends, closing your bank account, finding someone to take things like your cell phone or cooking untensils and getting to the airport is a lot in one week!
The teacher who told me this story also thought that Yes Youngdo was unfair to this dismissed teacher.
Losing your job, your income, your visa, having to move out of your apartment, finding a plane ticket, saying goodbye to your friends, closing your bank account, finding someone to take things like your cell phone or cooking untensils and getting to the airport is a lot in one week!
The teacher who told me this story also thought that Yes Youngdo was unfair to this dismissed teacher.
September 27, 2008
Telling the Truth
In doing this, I'm not trying to upset anybody, I'm not trying to hurt this hagwon's reputation and I'm not trying to keep teachers from working there as I said before! I am someone who thinks that all people should be treated with fairness and respect. I don't believe that schools, hagwons or corporations should mistreat their employees. I don't believe anyone should mistreat anyone else. And if they do, people have the right to talk about it.
Consider this: Micheal Moore put together the very famous movie titled Sicko. I know he did this thinking that if he exposed the practice of health insurance companies making people think they're covered and then denying coverage when it's really needed, he could change things for the better. I thought the movie was great. I'm glad he made it. I'm glad it went around the world and I think everyone should see it!
Amnesty International sends letters to leaders of governments who deny their citizens basic rights. They have gotten some people out of jail who were there without reason. When a country's leader knows that people know what's going on, it can make him/her think twice about their actions.
I think all the posts on the internet about Yes Youngdo had some effect on their practices. At one time there were so many bad posts on Dave's Esl Cafe, which I think is the most popular site for teachers in Korea, that it must have worried them. The managers, directors and owners must have paid attention. This is the same site which they have used to advertise for new teachers for a long time. And their students and families could possibly see the posts. (If you haven't already please read my blog on posts being deleted at Dave's Esl Cafe http://www.eslcafe.com/.) This probably led to better treatment for teachers! Yahoo!
***Wouldn't people act differently if they knew anything they said or did could be posted on sites that have thousands of visitors?***
During the time when so many posts were on the ESL websites, these are the posts which stuck in my memory: One teacher wrote he audiotaped a conversation between him and his manager and was going to the police. (I never saw a follow-up.) Another said that some teachers wanted to catch this same manager and basically beat the delights out of him. (Not exact words.) Still another had one teacher writing that he/she was fired 6 weeks before her contract ended for asking for a few days off to go to her grandmother's funeral. She wrote that she couldn't believe it. Bonus and flight ticket home - gone! Still another teacher wrote on the number of teachers who had been fired while stating that the firings were probably timed in a certain way which allowed Yes Youngdo to save money on flights and bonuses.
(If a teacher works for the better part of a year but doesn't receive their bonus, airfare or even their last paycheck due to something called an "11 month firing" the hagwon saves an awful lot of money!!! If the monthly salary and bonus are each 2 million and the flight is at least one million, more like 1.5-2 million, that's 5-6 million won saved!! Unfortunately many hagwons in Korea when faced with this situation chose to let their teachers go.)
Unfortunately, some of these posts which tell these stories are gone. The sites have been redone. There was one great thing one unhappy teacher did. He/she took 10-15 posts, put them together and posted them all at one site. There's no need to name this site as the posts aren't there anymore. But I wish I had copied it at that time.
Consider this: Micheal Moore put together the very famous movie titled Sicko. I know he did this thinking that if he exposed the practice of health insurance companies making people think they're covered and then denying coverage when it's really needed, he could change things for the better. I thought the movie was great. I'm glad he made it. I'm glad it went around the world and I think everyone should see it!
Amnesty International sends letters to leaders of governments who deny their citizens basic rights. They have gotten some people out of jail who were there without reason. When a country's leader knows that people know what's going on, it can make him/her think twice about their actions.
I think all the posts on the internet about Yes Youngdo had some effect on their practices. At one time there were so many bad posts on Dave's Esl Cafe, which I think is the most popular site for teachers in Korea, that it must have worried them. The managers, directors and owners must have paid attention. This is the same site which they have used to advertise for new teachers for a long time. And their students and families could possibly see the posts. (If you haven't already please read my blog on posts being deleted at Dave's Esl Cafe http://www.eslcafe.com/.) This probably led to better treatment for teachers! Yahoo!
***Wouldn't people act differently if they knew anything they said or did could be posted on sites that have thousands of visitors?***
During the time when so many posts were on the ESL websites, these are the posts which stuck in my memory: One teacher wrote he audiotaped a conversation between him and his manager and was going to the police. (I never saw a follow-up.) Another said that some teachers wanted to catch this same manager and basically beat the delights out of him. (Not exact words.) Still another had one teacher writing that he/she was fired 6 weeks before her contract ended for asking for a few days off to go to her grandmother's funeral. She wrote that she couldn't believe it. Bonus and flight ticket home - gone! Still another teacher wrote on the number of teachers who had been fired while stating that the firings were probably timed in a certain way which allowed Yes Youngdo to save money on flights and bonuses.
(If a teacher works for the better part of a year but doesn't receive their bonus, airfare or even their last paycheck due to something called an "11 month firing" the hagwon saves an awful lot of money!!! If the monthly salary and bonus are each 2 million and the flight is at least one million, more like 1.5-2 million, that's 5-6 million won saved!! Unfortunately many hagwons in Korea when faced with this situation chose to let their teachers go.)
Unfortunately, some of these posts which tell these stories are gone. The sites have been redone. There was one great thing one unhappy teacher did. He/she took 10-15 posts, put them together and posted them all at one site. There's no need to name this site as the posts aren't there anymore. But I wish I had copied it at that time.
Then and Now
I know that Yes Youngdo may be a much better place to work for than it was 2, 5 or 10 years ago. (I'm not sure how long foreign teachers have been there.) I'm also aware that there may be a huge difference between branches or depending on which manager you work for.
Some of the pics posted online are much nicer than what I remember. The classroooms seem bigger and nicer. The entrance and office I saw looked better. (Of course that teacher may have been at a different branch.) I think it's great! I don't want teachers to go through what I went through.
This is a short video of a classroom. I'm not sure when this was made. I guess it's recent. I can tell you for sure it's nicer than the classroom I had! As I wrote before it had no space, desks crammed together, no center aisle and only one picture on the wall. It was hard to do much with your classroom. I never saw any decorations we could put up, nor did the managers ever talk about this. http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=uts7SeLECIc
Some of the pics posted online are much nicer than what I remember. The classroooms seem bigger and nicer. The entrance and office I saw looked better. (Of course that teacher may have been at a different branch.) I think it's great! I don't want teachers to go through what I went through.
This is a short video of a classroom. I'm not sure when this was made. I guess it's recent. I can tell you for sure it's nicer than the classroom I had! As I wrote before it had no space, desks crammed together, no center aisle and only one picture on the wall. It was hard to do much with your classroom. I never saw any decorations we could put up, nor did the managers ever talk about this. http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=uts7SeLECIc
If a young, new teacher can begin a contract with Yes Youngdo now and finish successfully, receive all their pay, bonus, etc. and have a wonderful time, that's great! ABSOLUTELY! That's the way it should be! It would be great if every sincere teacher who comes to Korea can have this!
Are the Stories True?
1) One can see after reading the entire posts at the various websites that some posts are dated. I think the oldest is from 2002. You may say that was a whole six years ago. Some of the current Yes Youngdo teachers were in college or even high school then and had never heard of this hagwon. However, I have to say that it really wasn't that long ago and even if it has been a few years, or up to six years, based on what the teachers say - these things really happened!
2) One may also think that some stories are made up. Well, it's possible. I'm aware of that. Some stories may also be half-true with extra tidbits added in. Each one could be completely made up. It's possible! Is it likely though that they were all made up? What do you think?
Based on my own experiences, and hearing seemingly millions of stories like these from teachers who worked all over Korea, I would conclude that the stories may not be entirely true but there is probably a lot of truth to them.
2) One may also think that some stories are made up. Well, it's possible. I'm aware of that. Some stories may also be half-true with extra tidbits added in. Each one could be completely made up. It's possible! Is it likely though that they were all made up? What do you think?
Based on my own experiences, and hearing seemingly millions of stories like these from teachers who worked all over Korea, I would conclude that the stories may not be entirely true but there is probably a lot of truth to them.
Black Lists of Hagwons
Many teachers have talked of "black lists" of hagwons in Korea. This one is pretty well done. Yes Youngdo is included here but there are so many stories that it's hard to find. http://blacklist.tokyojon.com/
This is a list of mostly institutes in Korea. Yes Youngdo is number ten on this list. Here's the link. http://groups.msn.com/teachersclub/greylistschool.msnw
I decided to copy the list of hagwons on the first page here in case this site is updated. When I first published this post, one could click on the links below to read stories teachers wrote about working for these places. It is not working at the moment. It seems the site is being updated. I will try it again later.
The stories in these links are dated. Probably many of the hagwons mentioned have closed or changed completely. But I think anyone involved in teaching in Korea should know what has gone on.
This is a list of mostly institutes in Korea. Yes Youngdo is number ten on this list. Here's the link. http://groups.msn.com/teachersclub/greylistschool.msnw
I decided to copy the list of hagwons on the first page here in case this site is updated. When I first published this post, one could click on the links below to read stories teachers wrote about working for these places. It is not working at the moment. It seems the site is being updated. I will try it again later.
The stories in these links are dated. Probably many of the hagwons mentioned have closed or changed completely. But I think anyone involved in teaching in Korea should know what has gone on.
BCM, Seoul, Gangnam
3
teacherteacher!
2007-03-16 오전 10:56
TAX in Korea - Income tax and Pension Plan
2
2CuteNCanadian
2007-03-13 오후 3:22
LCI Kids Club in Pyeongchon, Anyang City
1
BillH041
2007-01-23 오후 3:27
LCI Kids Club in Pyeonchon, Anyang City
1
2007-01-23 오후 3:24
small?
1
h896ca5vofsr
2005-03-05 오전 6:15
Englısh Fırst Istanbul Turkey
1
Ingrıd
2004-12-02 오후 11:24
BRYS Foreign Language Institute
5
1
Local Hero
2004-05-22 오전 5:12
Avoid Kid's College
4
coralee333
2003-12-30 오후 9:19
Korea Feb 2004
1
2CuteNCanadian
2003-12-05 오전 5:16
Yes Youngdo English School
3
1
James
2003-12-04 오전 3:34
Chonan English Friend
1
2CuteNCanadian
2003-12-04 오전 3:32
HELP!!! - LCI Kids Club Mokdong
1
2CuteNCanadian
2003-12-04 오전 12:10
BLACK LIST THIS CO> NOW! "SED"
1
amore-seoul
2003-09-26 오후 2:52
SLP JAMSIL SEOUL
1
MATTH
2003-09-04 오후 10:05
Cheongju City
1
JohnKorea
2003-09-04 오전 3:38
Mr. John of ECC Namyangju
1
Lemon
2003-03-21 오후 2:17
- Private English lesson in Korea -
1
2003-01-30 오전 3:26
LCI Kids Club Mok-Dong
1
2003-01-22 오후 10:38
Tomorrow's School and Kevin Lee
1
coralee333
2003-01-21 오전 5:19
Wils School-MokDong (Full list of details)
3
James
2002-12-24 오후 1:46
any info on Ansan and Swaton Language school
2
tubaman
2002-12-08 오전 2:27
YBM Sisa ECC franchise in Jeonju.
4
James
2002-11-26 오전 8:55
Some Hagwons are now literally demanding blood!!!
2
lostseoul
2002-11-26 오전 8:51
Wils Language School in Mokdong
6
lostseoul
2002-11-26 오전 8:51
OtherBlacklists
2
James
2002-11-26 오전 8:50
English Camp Uijeongbu City
2
James
2002-11-26 오전 8:49
'Oregon Language School' in Daegu
2
James
2002-11-13 오전 11:16
ECC -Dongjak Gu
4
James
2002-11-13 오전 12:04
Stay away from Oe Dae Ilsan!!!
1
James
2002-10-27 오후 6:22
ECC Dong Jak Gu (Isu Subway)
1
BigJim
2002-10-05 오후 4:32
KIDS HERALD SCHOOL: SOKCHO KANGWONDO
3
James
2002-09-08 오후 11:11
SLP School
1
James
2002-08-27 오후 10:48
Kwaks English Country School
1
James
2002-08-25 오전 12:57
July '09: Well, if you click on two links above on stories about YY you can no longer see them. When I posted this you could but now you are taken to another page and find out you can't. Go ahead and click to see that if you want.
Former Teachers' Stories
I found this post some time back and was happy to find it again. It's one of the most important that I've seen. As I recall, I found it the first time at www.eslspectrum.com but that site has since been redone and it's not there anymore. What follows is first the former teacher's post explaining the situation, then his letter to Dave at Dave's ESL Cafe and finally Dave's response.
************************************************************************************
Hi all, I'm new to this board. I used DavesESL all the time as if it was the bible of ESL sites. Last year I worked for a hogwan called Yes Youngdo English School. I won't go into all the details of the problems at this place, but suffice to say, there were MANY. I, and other teachers, have attempted over the months to convey our frustrations on Dave's site, but to no avail. It seems that the forum is not as open there as it may seem.I did manage to get a response from Dave himself, which confirmed our suspicions. So, apart from this email being a warning about the said school, it's also a hope that this forum can overtake where Dave's has halted.Please email me if you need specific details.(Email contact with Dave Sperling below)
admin, there have been several occasions recently where I and other colleagues have attempted to write about our experiences at Yes Youngdo schools. sometimes these messages appear then disappear a couple of days later, other times they just don't show up. these messages are not libel or an attempt to destroy a reputation (if that is what they already have) but a legitimate attempt to inform other potential teachers of what they may be getting into. other schools have many messages written about them far worse than what we have attempted to convey. is there a specific reason for this? quite a few people are becoming suspicious of the school's motives, especially as they have instructed teachers not to post messages about the school on your forum. a reply would be appreciated. a non-reply will obviously raise these suspicions further.
Hi Stephen,
Yes Youngdo had sent e-mail to us requesting the threads to be removed, which we have to comply on the advice of our attorney (I know it's a hassle, but I'm the one trying to keep Dave's ESL Cafe in business). Please feel free, however, to post again, including in the Job Information Journal at:
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo
All the best,
Dave Sperling
Founder
Dave's ESL Cafe
http://www.eslcafe.com/
************************************************************************************
Hi all, I'm new to this board. I used DavesESL all the time as if it was the bible of ESL sites. Last year I worked for a hogwan called Yes Youngdo English School. I won't go into all the details of the problems at this place, but suffice to say, there were MANY. I, and other teachers, have attempted over the months to convey our frustrations on Dave's site, but to no avail. It seems that the forum is not as open there as it may seem.I did manage to get a response from Dave himself, which confirmed our suspicions. So, apart from this email being a warning about the said school, it's also a hope that this forum can overtake where Dave's has halted.Please email me if you need specific details.(Email contact with Dave Sperling below)
admin, there have been several occasions recently where I and other colleagues have attempted to write about our experiences at Yes Youngdo schools. sometimes these messages appear then disappear a couple of days later, other times they just don't show up. these messages are not libel or an attempt to destroy a reputation (if that is what they already have) but a legitimate attempt to inform other potential teachers of what they may be getting into. other schools have many messages written about them far worse than what we have attempted to convey. is there a specific reason for this? quite a few people are becoming suspicious of the school's motives, especially as they have instructed teachers not to post messages about the school on your forum. a reply would be appreciated. a non-reply will obviously raise these suspicions further.
Hi Stephen,
Yes Youngdo had sent e-mail to us requesting the threads to be removed, which we have to comply on the advice of our attorney (I know it's a hassle, but I'm the one trying to keep Dave's ESL Cafe in business). Please feel free, however, to post again, including in the Job Information Journal at:
http://www.eslcafe.com/jobinfo
All the best,
Dave Sperling
Founder
Dave's ESL Cafe
http://www.eslcafe.com/
Here is the link. There are also some comments from other teachers: http://koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4319
Another quick story: It is true that Yes Youngdo has told us that we are to have monthly blood tests for drugs. We have a clause in the contract which basically says we have to comply with every new rule the school dishes out during meetings. If we choose not to comply, then it's a cost effective (for YES) fireing.Also, if we say we are out at lunch, or make excuses. Again, non compliance = no job and most probably 4 hours to vacate your apartment or ----, the General Manager with get the police to kick you out.This school really thinks it owns you.
Update Nov. 13th:: Unfortunately, at the moment http://koreanesl.com/ is being updated and these posts are no longer there. I never copied the name/email addresses of the person who wrote the above comments. I'm very sorry you can no longer read the entire posts. There was an interesting story about a couple being fired and treated unfairly. I wish I had copied it here.Nov. 14th:: I did more google searches for information about Yes Youngdo and found links to posts at http://koreanesl.com and even though it's impossible to see the full posts now, one can read abbreviated versions which I'm going to go ahead and copy here.
Two full versions of posts can be read above. Just six weeks ago I posted the links and there was no trouble finding the full posts. I deleted any Korean writing and the size of each post (i.e. 16k). To find these posts go to http://www.google.com/ and type in key words such as Yes Youngdo, Korea and the site http://www.koreanesl.com/ Doing several searches using different key words, one can find several posts. I copied the posts which seem to be telling a story of mistreatment. And I put ---- in place of two managers' names which were in the posts.
Korean ESL Forum
It is true that Yes Youngdo has told us that we are to have monthly blood tests for drugs. ... Again, non compliance = no job and most probably 4 hours to vacate your apartment or ----, the General Manager with get the police to ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4429 (read full post above)
Korean ESL Forum
The general manager (I think he calls himself a director these days) is American -Korean, called ----. .... Yes Youngdo may not be the worst school in Korea, but it certainly is nowhere near the best. Good luck. Back to the List ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4356
Korean ESL Forum
First I want to say this ---- sounds like he has no business running a hogwan, if what you say is true. .... YES YOUNGDO MANAGER'S LIES EXPOSED Steve-o (Hits:731). Re:Hmm? One question (Eng/Kor) jade (Hits:779) <-- you are here ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4721
Korean ESL Forum
Although Yes Youngdo English school offers an attractive holiday of 6 weeks, it is only a little comfort for all the unpaid report writing hours and camera spying you are succumbed to. The managers ---- and ---- treat the teachers ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4421
Korean ESL Forum -
I'll refer to the post given by the manager of Yes Youngdo, and proven liar, -----(http://www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4506). He claims in his post that I was "one of those individual that take no pride in teaching and ...www.koreanesl.com/forummod.asp?ser=4538
Korean ESL Forum -
Last year I worked for a hogwan called Yes Youngdo English School. I won't go into all the details of the problems ... #####And to ----, manager of Yes Schools - why ask your head teacher at Pyongchon to instruct teachers not to ...www.koreanesl.com/forummod.asp?ser=4514
Korean ESL Forum -
... and maybe you come from a background whereby Yes Youngdo seems wonderful. but when i, or anyone else i'm close to, ... ----. ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=4526
Korean ESL Forum
DON'T work for Yes Youngdo. You won't get paid. Back to the List. ... BEWARE YES YOUNGDO youngdosurprise (Hits:201) <-- you are here ...www.koreanesl.com/forumdsp.asp?ser=20189
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